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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
333
   |
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:chatgris wrote:Salicaz wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:
I'm genuinely interested in what CCP/Hans thought these changes would lead to, if not the current situation - it's not like people have not warned about this happening.
Ironically this was CCP "fixing" FW....I really hope they don't try to fix it again. First off - I don't think Hans had any part in what we see now, didn't he join the CSM after all these design decisions were pretty much made? And secondly - CCP has made FW SO DAMN GOOD. Could it be better? Sure. Have they made HUGE improvments? YES! I'm Minmatar militia, and yes Nulli are rolling our occupancy, but there is a FANTASTIC amount of pvp to be had. There's people in frigates everywhere - CCP finally made a version of FW that gave nullsec alliances a reason to leave their huge blobs and go into size restricted plexes. Which means a HUGE population boost for FW, and TONS of fights to be had. I remember pre-inferno: Caldari militia had all but given up, there was nothing to shoot at in lowsec but neutrals here and there. The same few bittervets had been shooting the same few bittervets for years. Before inferno came out - I had cancelled both of my accounts and one had already expired. I grudgingly logged in post inferno to find ORANGE, ORANGE EVERYWHERE! FW is so much better now because they gave incentives for people to come to militia. I mean seriously, there's a *whole nullsec alliance* of about 1800 members rolling around doing their best to take occupancy, and that means a dispersion of small ship power. Living a few jumps from an 1800 member FW alliance interested in plexing is HEAVEN. And it's because of the incentives! Eh. The NullSec alliances aren't coming to fight. They're coming to get rich via exploitation of (still somwhat dodgy) FW mechanics. Goons did it with the LP rewards from ship kills, and now Nulli are doing it by holding systems in perpetual Vulnerability so they can farm them for infinite LP before flipping, upgrading, and cashing out. The solution to this is simple and possibly two fold: 1) Vulnerable systems do not award LP for offensive plexing. and/or 2) Systems that are Vulnerable for more than 24 hours auto-flip at the next DT.
This would mean that pvp'ers in the faction with the least amount of plex farmers will never be able to earn isk for pvp. Number of plexers will directly relate to number of systems held and the losing side will never be able to accrue enough systems for decent payout. Auto flipping would be the worst idea and would negate the only balancing effect in the current mechanics, the ability to stack up systems.
Your system would go further down the road to defeating a faction, something that should not be desirable. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
334
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
People were making ISK just fine before vulnerable systems were being farmed.
The system being vuln or not isnt the point. Its the value of the lp dictated by the tier system which in turn is controlled by the number of owned systems, is.
If systems are swapping constantly there will ne no opportunity for the losing side to ever reach a reasonable rate of income greater than that of say, high sec level 4 missions.
Tbh, i must just be not in the mood for retards, if you dont understand this simple consequence of what you suggest, un-install eve and sell your computer. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
334
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:
I never suggested LP for defensive plexing and tbh, I can't really come up with a good solution for plexing either. If anything, either making killing all the rats in order to capture the plex a prerequisite would get rid of the cheap few day old plexing alts taking majors left and right, just warping out as soon as anything appears on dscan.
Correct, the rest of the current mechanics of swinging occupancy can be explored without breaking anyones game permanently due to the balancing effect of no lp for defence and perma-vulnerable systems. But making kill all rats would definitely reduce the unwanted non-pvp activities on the plex front and may even encourage some of them to fight given that they now have to fit shiny new guns. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
337
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 22:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Xuixien wrote:
People were making ISK just fine before vulnerable systems were being farmed.
The system being vuln or not isnt the point. Its the value of the lp dictated by the tier system which in turn is controlled by the number of owned systems that is. If systems are swapping constantly there will ne no opportunity for the losing side to ever reach a reasonable rate of income greater than that of say, high sec level 4 missions. What is player driven content? What is "defense" and why should we do it to systems? These things are hard. CCP should change the system so Warbears can make risk-free billions, even if they're losing.
In your system you are about to be losing simply because an 1800man alliance joined your enemy. If you think that you should deserve to be unable to support pvp costs simply because some null bears got kicked from their sov and decided to sit in fw for a few weeks then go right ahead.
Personally i dont think its very healthy for fw but then im not ******** so we might see things a little differently. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
337
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 23:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Xuixien wrote:
People were making ISK just fine before vulnerable systems were being farmed.
The system being vuln or not isnt the point. Its the value of the lp dictated by the tier system which in turn is controlled by the number of owned systems that is. If systems are swapping constantly there will ne no opportunity for the losing side to ever reach a reasonable rate of income greater than that of say, high sec level 4 missions. What is player driven content? What is "defense" and why should we do it to systems? These things are hard. CCP should change the system so Warbears can make risk-free billions, even if they're losing. In your system you are about to be losing simply because an 1800man alliance joined your enemy. If you think that you should deserve to be unable to support pvp costs simply because some null bears got kicked from their sov and decided to sit in fw for a few weeks then go right ahead. Yes Minmatar is in a bad position, and this is perfectly OK. That's the nature of Factional Warfare - it's a static war. The "losers" of today are the "winners" of tomorrow. The basic premise of the system is working fine; winners are being rewarded and losers are being penalized. This system is in place to motivate and drive conflict. It seems to have had the dual effect of also motivating and driving a lot of crying and whining. This is also OK. A major NullSec alliance has indeed joined FW with the sole intent of filling it's coffers and bouncing. If it works, there's nothing at all stopping any major alliance from executing the same strategy, perhaps even two BFF Alliances joining opposing sides and farming the system into oblivion to fund their NullSec wars. This would be sad. But it could be avoided by switching to a system where vulnerable systems don't provide LP for offensive plexing and/or systems auto-flip after 24 hours.
Under your suggested system if nulli stay and no one can interest another entity to join then the minmatar are the losers of today AND tomorrow. With perma vuln systems and no lp for defensive systems matar still have a reason and can afford to fight and plex as the sheer numbers of the enemy is balanced by the mechanics. If there are no mechanics to utilize to counter superior numbers, fw becomes null sec where the side with more numbers is the only side that can afford to fight the war. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
337
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 23:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Under your suggested system if nulli stay and no one can interest another entity to join then the minmatar are the losers of today AND tomorrow. With perma vuln systems and no lp for defensive systems matar still have a reason and can afford to fight and plex as the sheer numbers of the enemy is balanced by the mechanics.
Sorry I'm not seeing. You'll have to elaborate more.
Im sorry, you are ********.
A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip.
Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec.
Obviously ushra khan are well known terrible role players but for those of us that just want fun pvp that we (and our enemy) can afford without entirely crippling anyone by the 'virtue' of outnumbering them, the current mechanics of no lp for defensive plex and perma vuln systems seem to be an interesting balancing mechanic. To throw that mechanic away will ultimately create 'losers' with no prospect of affording to pvp reliant on their enemies getting bored and leaving fw. If losers is what you want then i suggest that you get right back to losing in nullsec. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
340
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 12:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Xuixien wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Under your suggested system if nulli stay and no one can interest another entity to join then the minmatar are the losers of today AND tomorrow. With perma vuln systems and no lp for defensive systems matar still have a reason and can afford to fight and plex as the sheer numbers of the enemy is balanced by the mechanics.
Sorry I'm not seeing. You'll have to elaborate more. A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip. Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec. The problem with your example is that, besides being oversimplified to the point of uselessness, is that as far as system control is concerned it's going to be a numbers game either way, so you're making a moot point.
No, the current system is as far from a numbers game as possible. in a fw with 10 systems, 100v10 plexers. The 10 plexers can still make the 10 systems vulnerable even if it will take them 10 times longer (assuming no defensive). Once vulnerable, the side with 10 players can swing the systems in their favour. Sure, they side with 100 plexers will have occupancy more often, but with auto switching systems the side with 10 players will NEVER have more than 1 system. Its basic mathematics.
The only simple thing about it is there is the assumption of no defence, which apart from key home systems is largely correct anyway. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
340
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote:Hidden Snake wrote: biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future. all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers .... well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... I liked your post because you seem like the kind of person who needs their tin-foiling, black-helicoptering, New World Ordering validated by other people. CCP has balanced FW couple times just because gallente and minmatar could not compete. Amarr does not need any CCP action to get back in business, as usuall players can handle situation.
Has damar got control of this account? Thats two posts from BM in a row that have no relevance to the quotation in the post. Thats usually a damar trait. |
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